The Story

The Price Is High

Posted on February 27, 2012 by A Girl

A month or so ago, I received a gift from The Gun Divas.  Two books by Gavin De Becker.  I was currently reading 3 other books at the time, but that night the books came, I opened up one, the Gift Of Fear and began reading.

The book opens with a story about a woman named Kelly.  Kelly is in the stairwell of her apartment complex on her way up to her apartment when she encounters a man.  She has never seen him before, but he seems nice enough. He offers to help, she says no, the have an exchange of words.  She isn’t sure why, she is not comfortable with him. Nothing about him is scary.  He is dressed nice, he is being nice and he is making no threats at all. You probably have already guessed this does not end well. The man rapes Kelly in brutal fashion.

The guy who attacked me also was dressed nicely.  He had short well kept hair.  He was clean and he spoke very softly and he smiled. His eyes were cold and lacked soul.  My daughter’s pictures are bone chillingly accurate and when she talks of that day, his eyes are the thing she often comes back to, but he smiled and he said all the right things a nice person is suppose to say.

I wish more classes would focus on the fact that many attacks on woman happen slower and are not quite as obvious as the person who runs up behind you and screams some threat.  Many attacks are fast and fit the profile of someone coming up behind, grabbing you and a struggle ensues, but I would hasten to guess, from my reading that there are an equal number of attacks that happen in a more stalking kind of way.  For women the bar room scene is less about a discussion that gets out of hand and quickly turns into a brawl and more of the profiling, get to know you, even though you don’t trust me, get you to at the very least follow me outta here, kind of thing. No class has time to discuss every possible scenario, but I think it would be beneficial to at least mention that for women, it can be very different.  Often the wolf is in fact dressed like a sheep.

I was not raped, but much of my story and hers are the same.  A man we did not know approached us, uninvited and did not leave us alone when we asked. Kelly’s guy also said things like “Don’t worry”  “I won’t hurt you”  Like me, she felt those words were the opposite of comforting.  She did make it out alive as did I, but not without some tough life lessons.  She threw herself into healing and learning how to never again be a victim. She says looking back she can see that her internal voice was talking to her, that her intuition had been guiding her along and she can see where she listened and that without knowing she did act on signals that helped her to save her own life.  My attack was interrupted, so I can not says as definitively as she can, but, I too, can see things I did right that day, that at the very least kept me alive until someone else came along. Kelly talks about being tired of feeling guilty for letting him get that close to her and tired of being blamed for being stupid.

After I got home from Memphis I picked up the book again and began to read.  I am not surprised that the universe conspired that I would read the chapter I read the day after I wrote my post about the trip.

The author says: “I’v seen many times that after the shock of violence has begun to heal, victims will be carried in their minds back to the hallway or parking lot, back to the sights, smells, and sounds, back to the time when they still had choices, before they fell under someone’s malevolent control, before they refused the gift of fear.”

As I realized on the plane coming home, there was plenty of time for me to have made different choices between when I first felt fear and when he was on top me.  I was afraid and I did not act on that fear, not enough anyway.

DeBecker says, “Often they will say about some particular detail. I realize this now, but I didn’t know it then.  Of course, if it is in their heads now, then it was in their heads then.  What they mean is that they only now accept the significance.  With denial, the details we need for the best predictions float silently by us like life preservers, and while the man overboard may enjoy the comfortable belief that he is still in his stateroom, there is soon a price to pay for his daydream.

The price is high.

“Maybe some good can come of this.” “The weird thing is, with all this information, I am actually less afraid walking around now then I was before it happened-but there must be an easier way for people to learn.”-Kelly

DeBecker, A woman could offer no greater cooperation to her soon to be attacker than to spend time telling herself, “But he seems like such a nice man”…. A woman waiting for an elevator sees a man and she feels apprehension… How does she respond to natures strongest strongest survival signal? She suppresses it and says “I am not going to live like this.”

The irony is that so many of us say, we are not going to live our lives in fear.  We are not going to learn how to protect ourselves or carry a gun because we refuse to let the bad guy win.  We refuse to give him that kind of power over our lives.  We use the excuse of not being afraid and that lie puts us in the most vulnerable position we can be in, defenseless. When you are out of excuses and when someone is lying on top you telling you exactly how they plan to take full control of your life, well, then you will get to experience the kind of life altering fear that Kelly and I did.

There has got to be an easier way for one to learn.

76 thoughts on “The Story

  1. killing is *never* the answer… you carry a gun & the bad guy will carry a bigger one – end result: arms race in the high street.
    what we need to do is de-weaponize society.

    • You live out here in OR don’t you? Left coast liberal that thinks guns are bad for everyone but the people you want to have them – i.e the people protecting you personally from the dregs of society that don’t meet your standards. Wait until you face a situation like the author. Either you’ll change your mind about it..or there’ll be one less stupid viewpoint. Fortunately for you, there’s the 1st Amendment. Fortunately for us, there’s the 2nd Amendment.

      • Check out the 7th amendment. The part where it speaks about Due Process.
        As it happens I do believe that guns are bad for everyone, except for *some* law enforcement officers.
        Are you suggesting that a law enforcement officer was responsible for what happened to AGirl?

        • Keith, dahling, I suggest you join the rest of us in the real world. You know, the world where people steal to feed their heroin habits, beat the hell out of their spouses and kids, steal money from old people. And guess what, dude? When my friends in uniform catch them, they get their due process. If, however, they choose to present themselves as an armed threat, their due process is trumped by our right to a civilized society.

          You, sir, are free to NOT own all the guns you don’t want to. When someone breaks into your house, you be sure and call 911 and tell them, specifically, that you want an armed policeman/women to help you. Of course, if a bad guy attacks you in public, we, those who chose to arm ourselves, will see the bubble over your head that says “Due process first, life second”. We’ll then abandon you to your thoughts and fate, and take care of ourselves.

          You also are free to come here (unless AGirl has banned you…I hope she does…WITH NO DUE PROCESS, NO READING YOU YOUR RIGHTS, AND ABOVE ALL, NO GUN!) and make a fool of yourself. You also are free to get a reality check.

          When I see people in my office who are more concerned about the criminal than the victim, it tells me one thing…they themselves have criminal tendencies and probably an outstanding warrant somewhere. I am very seldom wrong. Now, really, in your case, your crime might just be lack of intelligence, or it might be more. Something about a person who is more concerned for the bad guy than the woman and child he terrorized….that tells me a lot. Please, do come into my county and do something stupid….like advocate for the bad guy and mock the victims. You’d be our defendant of the year! We’d give you your very own room and attendants. And everyday, I’d come and show you that I’m not “some” law enforcement, I’m not “any” law enforcement, and I carry a gun! Just to make your day.

          (dude, you picked on our friend. what are ya, a maroon? Apologies to all maroons, of course) And now, the ultimate punishment for a troll like you…IGNORE!)

        • Keith, get your amendments straight. What does jury trials in civil cases have to do with guns? By the way, how does a 120 pound woman protect herself from a 200 pound man or three of them? Come up with a realistic answer to that which does not involve her carrying a weapon.

        • “As it happens I do believe that guns are bad for everyone, except for *some* law enforcement officers.”

          What you prefer s a police state. We will annihilate anyone who tries to impulse a police state.

    • Keith –

      I’ll agree with the first part of your statement with a caveat. “Killing” is not the answer. However, there is a difference between “killing” and “self-defense”. That is what you do not seem to understand.

      Sometimes, when people defend themselves the bad guys they are defending themselves against die. That consequence belongs totally to the perpetrator. Don’t attack, and no one will defend against you, possibly causing you harm in the defense that ends your life.

      Worldwide and throughout history, when governments remove contemporary weapons from the hands of the general populace, the general populace suffers. Whether at the hands of the government directly, or at the hands of criminals who did not give up their weapons, when people cannot defend themselves they WILL BE attacked by the wolves in society.

      Also, statistics prove that when people are armed, crime actually goes down. Criminals are generally cowards at heart. They will not, unless under the influence of drugs, knowingly attack someone they think might have the ability to fight back and do them great bodily harm.

      Heinlein said it perhaps the most succinctly: An armed society is a polite society.

      • Steve, to clarify: killing is when people end up dead.

        I cant find any evidence to support for your assertion: “statistics prove that when people are armed, crime actually goes down.”
        can you provide a source for that statement?

        what i did find though might interest you:

        Rate of Gun Homicide in per 100,000 People

        United States
        2009: 2.985
        2008: 3.12
        2007: 3.36
        2006: 3.42
        2005: 3.43
        2004: 3.20
        2003: 3.37
        2002: 3.2511
        2001: 3.12
        1999: 2.976
        1998: 3.37
        1993: 7.0712

        2009: 0.510
        2008: 0.610
        2007: 0.5615
        2006: 0.610
        2005: 0.7
        2004: 0.5
        2003: 0.5
        2002: 0.5
        2001: 0.5
        2000: 0.595
        1999: 0.510
        1998: 0.5
        1997: 0.6
        1996: 0.7
        1995: 0.6
        1992: 0.7616

        OAS Observatory on Citizen Security. 2011. ‘Intentional Homicide.’ Report on Citizen Security in the Americas 2011, pp. 16-17, 21. Washington, DC: Organisation of American States.

        Which Heinlein are you quoting?

        while you are out there in the internet, take a google at “gun deaths per capita”
        I feel the evidence for disarming society is compelling.

        • Because Gun Death’s are the only deaths that matter?

          I guess all of these don’t then.

          He was quoting Robert Heinlein, the science fiction author, though I’m not surprised that you didn’t immediately know that since your reading comprehension sucks since your reply to the 2nd Amendment by claiming only police should have arms. Guess you missed Heller and McDonald there sport.

          By your statements above there is no question that you find it some how morally superior to have a woman dead and raped in an alley instead of her standing over the cooling corpse of her attacker.

          Run along and play some place else idiot. Due process doesn’t forbid self-defense. Due process applies to the law and being applied to people. Not someone defending themselves from someone else.

          • I often find that people, like you in this case, resort to personal attacks when logic, common sense or vocabulary is beyond them.
            What was that link to weerdworld about anyway? Comic relief i’m hoping! 🙂
            So go on and quote the 2nd Amendment: “… a well regulated Militia shall be necessary…”
            Read it again. A Well Regulated Militia.
            that’s code for “Law Enforcement Officers”. Not every tom, dick or barron.

          • Keith, Again you lack reading comprehension which doesn’t surprise me.

            A well regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

            Again, reading comprehension failure. You obviously didn’t read the Heller and McDonald links because those are supreme court rulings validating that applies to the people and is incorporated into all 50 states.

            The link to Weer’d world if you again bother to read which I don’t think you really can at this point is there are other deaths than gun deaths.

            Your assumption is that all crime centers around firearms when it does not. Tell me, if in a room of 100 people 5 are victims of gun crime and 3 are victims of non-gun crime, in another room of 100 people 10 people are victims of crime but no guns are allowed, which is actually safer?

            It has been shown over and over again that idea more guns = more crime is bunk.

            Your comment regarding living in a community is obviously a troll. That community does NOT exist. Even in your socialist wet dream of Europe.

            I do find it ironic that you laugh at people dying and being murdered by means other than a firearm. It merely indicates your delusional state and your belief that honest law abiding people have no right to live while the criminal has a right to do as he desires and pleases.

            You say that facts, logic, and common sense is beyond me. Look at the man who is claiming it is better to be murdered than defend yourself with a firearm. Look at the man who tells a woman she should just let herself be raped and mugged, so he can feel superior about his moral stature.

            I have spent a lot of time looking at the facts sir, and the facts are against you.

            You can only be one of two possible things, a troll or a severe case of Peterson Syndrome.

            Run along and play some place else, your side has lost, you’re living in denial, and your side has even admitted it would prefer more violent crime for fewer “gun deaths”.

            If you don’t want to get shot by me or A Girl, the solution is simple, don’t attempt to harm me and mine. You have no business though telling anyone that they shouldn’t defend themselves or what tools they should use if they do so, you are nothing more than a criminal yourself for endorsing their behavior as acceptable.

            Remind me, who’s linking facts and other information again? Oh that’s right, the dumb beer swilling redneck carrying a gun. It’s a wonder I ever got an engineering degree right? I mean I know absolutely nothing about producing a coherent argument.

            If you like your delusions, then fine, live with them, don’t try and force them on others.

        • Hey Keith, so you can’t find ANY statistics that show crime drops when society is armed.

          I also notice that you pad your numbers by only listing homicides with guns. But if you actually look a total homicide numbers (because the weapons is incidental to the crime) you will actually see that crime is much higher in countries that have strict gun control – like the formerly Great Britain.

          Anyway, here’s your link to some knowledge

        • Keith –

          I’m not sure why I’m bothering, but you did address your response to me, and while I feel others have done an admirable job already of refuting you, I will add a little more.

          Your “Rate of Gun Homicide by 100,000 people” includes suicides and gang killings. Yes, Canada has people that commit suicide, and while they have some gangs, they do not have nearly the number the US has. So right off the bat, your figures are irrelevant as they include extra statistics that do not address the topic at hand.

          Two other things. You said: Better to disarm everyone then to arm the BG.

          The only truly effective way to disarm the BG would be to kill him, although literally disarming him (removing his arms) might be enough. Think about it. If he is breathing, he can pick up a rock, a 2×4, a knife, a lead pipe and hit someone with it. Lacking those, he can probably use his bare hands around someone’s neck. A “bad guy” is, by definition: BAD. I.e. NOT GOOD. Intent on harm to others. The bad guy cannot be cured by society. He can only be reacted to either when it happens (self-defense) or by society via the courts after the fact.

          You also said, immediately following the above: The key here is how lethal the encounter with a BG would be. How likely will you be to survive it and live to see another sunrise.

          The answer is: Not very. If a BG has the ability to cause harm with the sure knowledge that the victim cannot fight back, they will. If the BG wants you dead, you will be, if you cannot fight back. If he wants to rape a woman, he will, if she cannot fight back. Even if he doesn’t kill her, she will still have been raped.

          Keith – ask yourself this one question. If a law-abiding citizen is doing absolutely nothing wrong, and is attacked by a criminal intent on causing them harm, potentially fatal harm, do you really believe that the law-abiding citizen should simply have to let the criminal have their way? Answer that question please.

        • I’m not sure what the relevance is here because Canada has never been disarmed. They did have a registration program that has since been scrapped because at the cost of over $2,000,000,000 no lives were saved and no crimes wee solved.

    • You, sir, are a total fucking moron.

      Pray tell how you are going to take away the ability of a large man to punch or kick you into submission?

      The fact is that a gun is an equalizing factor for size differences. my wife, at 120 lbs, can effectively stop an attacker who is 250lbs with her gun – something she wouldn’t be able to do with just her hands.

      In your world I guess it would be better if she is raped and murdered rather than being able to come home at the end of the day, right?

      Tell you what. You stay disarmed, I’ll carry my .45 and if I see you being mugged and beaten in an alley, I won’t interfere since you hate guns so much. How’s that for ya, cupcake?

    • If you really believe that no one should have firearms except the police (whom you expect to risk their lives for you for money), then you MUST put this sign on the front doors of your home, your workplace and on your child(ren)’s school:

    • Keith, I admire you for your nice beliefs, if you really believe them.

      The question is, do you have the balls to back them up? Put a sign in your front yard stating your beliefs for all the world to see, “I do not believe in guns, this is a gun free home, and human life if more valuable than any stuff I own”. Will you do that, or will you continue to hide behind your neighbors that do have guns, and depend on the criminal to not kick your front door in because he thinks you might be armed? Because once you disarm all your neighbors there is nothing to keep your door from being kicked in except your belief that no one would be bad enough to want to hurt your feelings or scare you, while taking whatever they want.

      If you are honest in your beliefs show the world by putting your beliefs on display to the world, and get all like minded people you know to do the same. Will you?

      No, I didn’t think so.

    • Keith, someone ending up dead isnt necessarily a killing… consider deaths by natural causes and deaths due to accidental injuries. But the one thing more important than that is correcting your assertion that removing guns will reduce crime or that having more guns causes more crime. That is fundamentally flawed. Use Switzerland as an example. Swiss citizens perform military duties and upon completion take their assigned weapon (automatic rifle, combat gear, ammo, etc…) home with them to keep control of it themselves. This is done with the idea that an armed population is a great deterrent against unwanted invasions, mass violence, etc… Swiss gun ownership per capita is ranked number 4 in the world, but their gun crime rates are so low they dont even bother tracking them. This shows me that those guns you are so scared of are not the cause of the problems, society is. Unfortunately, attempting to remove all those guns from the hands of law abiding citizens wouldnt solve the problem, but it would create new problems. Not only would law abiding citizens be disarmed, criminals would still have guns, and would be able to use them against everyone else at their leisure. Even if the criminals didnt have guns, they would have use of other weapons and the end result would likely be similar. Please take the time to do some research on this with an open mind, free from myths and bias. You might pleasantly surprise yourself.

    • You are living in a fantasy world. the gun IS the great equalizer. An elderly woman is on equal terms with a 200 lb. thug. Take away her ability to defend heself, then she is done.

      Wake up and smell reality, the gun cannot hurt anyone. An evil person is the one who harms other people. Start blaming and dealing with that! I ‘ve saved my life and others by having a sidearm with me on two differant occasions. Thank God , for the 2nd Amendment.

    • Oh boy. I guess, according to your logic, since “killing” is never an answer, you just want the victim to lay there and get raped. Call the cops and hope they will get there in time. Have a better idea – Just like that senator in Colorado stated “pee on yourself and the attacker to ruin their mood”. Nice choice! You sir, are an idiot!

      Tell you what. You pee on the attacker and call the cops. We will take other measures instead.

    • Keith
      I believe the author was looking for “thought” about her story. This is not an opportunity to get on your soapbox about the idea of “killing” and guns naturally occur together.
      As a woman who can relate to the authors story, I too have made a choice for self protection. I, too, was very concerned and fearful of guns. But, the reality is, my community has changed and my status as a single woman may also be a detriment to my safety. Intent on using a gun, I have taken advantage of classes offered in gun safety, pistol defensive, and spent time with more experienced handlers to be safe and sane.
      As one posted, criminals with guns are cowards and I am prepared to meet them head on should a situation arise.

    • Have you ever seen little boys play? Many a parent decides to de-weaponize their home but boys make their fingers into guns and still play with weapons. It is likewise impossible to de-weaponize society, although it is a nice pipe dream and I respectfully understand your motive to de-weaponize. Even if it were possible to rid the world of every single gun, tire irons, baseball bats and hammers would still exist. There will be no end to weapons. The Founding Fathers understood this concept. There will be no end to weapons.

    • I’m forced to disagree…. for two reasons.

      First, it’s impossible. We are surrounded by deadly weapons, from the steak knives in your kitchen, to the rock laying on the ground, to our bare hands…. and automobiles make pretty good weapons as well. Therefore, it is pretty well impossible to make society totally safe from anyone who wants to harm anyone else. Even beyond that, I don’t want to spend three hours a day in the gym so I can bulk enough enough to be safe from some angry dude who does the same, and some people obviously don’t have that option. Therefore, to me, the best way to be safe seems to obviously be a situation where anyone who wants to hurt someone else will be aware that there is risk associated with doing so, and so will be deterred. (You won’t stop a rapist or a mugger by disarming him; but you may stop him if he believes he may get hurt or killed if the tries.)

      Second, I don’t agree with the basic premise – that the way to prevent people from doing bad things is to make it physically impossible for them to do so. You can be almost totally safe, and pretty sure that you’ll never see a gun, by remaining locked in a bunker for your entire life. However, that doesn’t seem like a very pleasant alternative to me; it seems more like putting rubber padding on all the walls in your house lest you trip and bump into one of them. The way to prevent violence is to eliminate the reasons for violence…. I don’t see gun ownership as “a race to be better armed than the other guy”. It’s simply an acknowledgement that trying to totally disarm everyone isn’t a viable solution to the problem… and that, if some people are going to be armed, and may wish you harm, leveling the playing field even a little is at least some improvement, and will also make you feel more like you’re controlling the situation rather than simply reacting to it – or running from it. (I think that many of the problems with our current society stem from people feeling that they are only reacting to problems which they can do nothing about…. and “trying to get rid of all the guns” as a way to eliminate violence seems to be an example of that.)

  2. Keith,
    What is it that you think AGirl should have done?
    Do you think that following the BG’s orders would have turned out well?
    Look at the FBI statistics of a female going to a secondary location with a BG.

    How do you “de-weaponize” society? People have made weapons out of anything and everything since the beginning. A person can do a lot of damage with just a stout branch even if untrained.
    Do you think that if all the guns disappear that crime would suddenly stop? Look at the number of serious assaults with knives and other weapons in Canada. Banning guns there has not solved their crime problem.
    Do you think making all weapons illegal with stop the criminal? He is a criminal because he breaks the law. If he is willing to rob you, which is illegal, then why wouldn’t he be willing to carry an illegal weapon as well?

    Is killing always the answer? Nope.
    Is it sometimes what is necessary? You bet your sweet tushie it is.

    Do you think that everyone can be talked down, reasoned with, or persuaded?
    To qoute Alfred from Batman Begins, “Some men just want to see the world burn.”
    Some people cannot be talked to. Some people will not give you the chance.

    I personal hope that you or your family are never put in a situation to test your philosophy. If that day comes though, I hope one of this community’s philosophers is nearby.

    I follow Rory Miller’s advice always, “It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die.”

    Be safe.
    To Keith and those who think likewise, I recommend you read anything by Mr. Miller and “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker.

    • Ask any Jew who had family in WWII Germany – or any white South Afrikaaner who has lost family under the bastard Mugabe – or anyone who knows the names of Pol Pot, Stalin, or Castro – how well that demented philosophy has worked out for them.
      “Maybe if we cower the right way, and grovel in just the right position, and whine with just the right words, the big, powerful bad man won’t kill us! Maybe he will just beat us, rape our children, take our can and leave us alone!”
      Ask any woman who has been raped and beaten senseless how she feels about it.
      Better yet, Keith – wait until you have been anally raped by a sociopathic pervert, and maybe cut a bit with a knife for his amusement, and explain to him how violence is wrong. Then get back to us.
      Si vis pacem? Para bellum.

      • addendum: the first encounter that I had with the aftermath of the ‘just give them the money and don’t fight back!’ verbal diarrhea was when I was out for a morning run, decades ago. Ran past a 24 our convenience store and saw three police cars there. It was only 7:00 in the morning. I asked what had happened.
        The sweet older lady who worked there was behind the counter, covered with a sheet. Blood was everywhere. I A psycho had robbed the store. She gave him the money – the police said about 35.00 cash – and when he had it, just for a kick, he shot her in the face five times with a .22 pistol
        You never forget that kind of thing.

    • Tom thanks for that comprehensive and considered exposition of your point of view.

      I can find no reason in civilized society for carrying or even owning a lethal weapon by anyone except by a small number of well trained and managed law officers. That includes all hand-guns, knives (within context, say hunting/fishing ok, in a mall, not ok) long guns, assault rifles, automatic or semi-automatic weapons, air-rifles and replicas weapons, samurai swords, throwing knives, military sabers (except for ceremonial uses) hand grenades, pipe bombs, acid pellets etc.. you get the picture.

      Consider a place where the worst weapon available would be a 2×4 – bad, i grant you, but I’d prefer to take my chances with a 2×4 than a 9mm.

      Better to disarm everyone then to arm the BG.

      The key here is how lethal the encounter with a BG would be. How likely will you be to survive it and live to see another sunrise.

      The other way, to keep lethal weapons on our streets, available to all , good and bad alike, is in my opinion, counter productive: it allows the BG to carry lethal weapons.

      Then there’s the question of children? when do kids carry a gun? at 21? 18? 16? 14? 12?
      If its 18, what do 17 year old’s do when faced with a BG and a gun?
      what about body armour? a good thing, isnt it? gotta love kevlar.
      I prefer a t-shirt myself.

      And so, on to Rory Miller: I don’t know the gentleman, i have no reason not to believe he is an good man, sincere in his beliefs, true to his faith and a patriot. From what i have just read, he is a soldier, a most ancient and honorable profession. His experience seems to be in violence. I would counsel a path of peace.
      Thanks for pointing me to “The Gift of Fear” – I will read it.

      • I guess you can take your chances with a 2×4. Pretty much one blow to the spine and your crippled for life. A couple more to the head and your dead. You can make that choice for yourself. What gives you the right to make it for me, A Girl, or anyone else. Fundamentally you are fantasizing. You cannot disarm the BG. So why advocate to disarm the good guy. You can choose to be a pacifist. Doesn’t really work well against evil. Wouldn’t it have been better for Ted Bundy’s first victim to have been armed? Is she and his 30 some other victims better off dead now because the first victim did not kill him in self defense? I don’t think so.

        Or let me give you the scenerio. BG has your child with a knife to her throat and there is no doubt he will kill. You have the shot. Tell me why you should not take it.

        Or better yet, terrorist has his finger on a nuclear detonator. 50000 people will die, including you if he triggers. You have the shot. Tell me why it is morally superior to allow 50000 people to die when you can stop it with one shot?

      • If your willing to take your chance with a 2×4, then like George said, you’re probably going to end up either crippled for life or most likely dead for certain.

        And speaking of knives, so you’re OK with someone having a little 1″ pen knife? Because if so, then you are willing to have your throat slit open and never see it coming. A 1″ knife is long enough to penetrate to some major veins so you can bleed out quick and small enough to be concealed so you’ll never see it coming.

        You keep thinking those happy thoughts.

      • Oh, and would those ‘well trained professionals’ include the NYPD who managed to shoot 9 innocent bystanders and took 16 rounds to hit a bad guy that was less than 10 feet away?

        • Consider that there are analogies, for example prison. This is a place where ‘the masses’ (who we even have the comparative advantage to /know/ are bad guys) are disarmed of anything and everything and the ‘well trained authority’ are allowed them in measured amounts (not all prison guards are armed beyond pepper spray, batons and the like). So the question is would you like to spend a night in prison, keith? They are far from free of weapons, just the ones you recognize. Spoons sharpened into shivs, a bed sheet as a noose, a broken chair leg as a club. These are places where the physically strong steal, assault and rape at will and it’s just by iron fisted control and force that there is any order. Oh sure, sometimes the badder guys get punished by losing TV privileges or any extension of their sentence, but that didn’t prevent the crime of a rape or murder from occurring in the first place.

          The disdain of guns is misplaced. It’s the fall of individualism, the lack of responsibility, morality and ethics from which the social fabric of our world is being strained. These problems will exist regardless, so to turn our society even further into a prison/police state won’t change any of this and will make it a far more unstable world for the more vulnerable. A gun is the just a tool, but one that happens to allow an 80 year old grandmother to meet and equal the force of a youthful 225 lbs attacker.

      • Disarming everyone leaves us at the mercy of those born physically strong. I’m a 5’4 woman, 120lbs soaking wet. If some larger person decided to hurt me with just their bare hands, there is nothing I could do to stop them.

        Do I deserve to be raped or killed because my size and strength are not adequate defense?

      • Obviously, Keith the Troll is a Brit. So let me compare “gun free England” to the heavily armed United States.

        The British National Crime Survey says there were 2,203,000 violent crimes with an adult victim in 2010, for a rate of 4,156.6 violent crimes per 100,000 Adult Brits. The FBI Uniform Crime Report says there were 1,246,248 violent crimes, for a rate of just 403.6 violent crimes per 100,000 population, all ages included.

        England’s National Crime Survey found 20,400,000 million crimes of all degrees of seriousness, for a rate of 38,500 crimes per 100,000 Brits. The United States National Crime survey found 22,400,000 crimes of all degrees of seriousness, for a rate of 7,255.2 per 100,000 population.

        For 2010, the FBI reported 12,996 murders, for a murder rate of 4.2 per 100,000 (4.8 counting self defense shootings). But the comparison is with “gun free England.” America’s “comparable population” homicide rate is 2.1 per 100,000, per the FBI Uniform Crime Report for 2010. And “Gun Free England?

        The exact number of 2010 murders is unknown, since Downing Street has decreed that a murder shall not be counted until someone has been tried, convicted, and has exhausted their appeal. But since 1/1/11 British media reports 8.712 dead bodies a day; equivalent to a murder rate of 6.0 per 100,000 population.

        So on every category of crime: violent, non-violent, and murder; the United States is a far safer place than England. But it was not always that way. Between 1870 and the inception of American gun control laws in 1905 and 1906 both nations homicide and violent crimes were much the same, 0.8 to 1.2 and 70 to 80 per 100,000 population.

        The United States got gun controls first, with tragic results. England’s “series of bloody failures,” to quote your Chief Inspector Colin Greenwood, did not begin until 1920. But you have outdone us in gun controls – and the results of gun controls.


      • This site, and the posts here, are directly related to personal defense. While I believe that personal “in the moment” defense is is a sacred right, and even a responsibility when you are responsible for the well being of another, it is not the only, or, in my opinion, even the most important reason to own firearms.
        In the entire history of mankind no unarmed civilization has ever been free; free to speak as they choose, worship as they choose, assemble as they choose, all of those things which we hold dear.
        On 4-19-1775 14,000 British subjects (militia) showed up with firearms to protect the right of themselves and their unknown neighbors to owns weapons. The weapons they were fighting for were state of the art military weapons, from muzzle loading muskets to cannon. On that day they ceased being subjects and became citizens in control of their own destiny.
        The “well regulated militia” that our Founders were speaking of in 1788 were private citizens who elected their own leaders and were responsible for their own training. They had acquitted themselves quite well in 1775 and were not forgotten in 1788.
        Every successful disarmament, both before that day and since, has resulted in increased violence and oppression.
        On a side not, whenever I here someone use the phrase “common sense” I take it to mean that individual would rather not think the question through.

    • Gavin DeBecker’s “The Gift of Fear” is a great book, and one that I recommend to all female friends.

      However, please do keep in mind that Gavin DeBecker has a strong bias against owning/using guns and is an anti-gunner for all intents and purposes.

  3. AGirl, when you travel the road to my home you will not carry a gun, a knife, or even a sharpened stick. There is no need, no one will threaten you.
    If you are carrying weapons, unarmed police officers will invite you to leave them safely in their care.
    My children play and learn in a gun-free environment, where disputes are resolved by logic, consensus and the rule of law that is enacted and upheld by the huge majority of people.
    Our senior citizens sleep securely a night, travel unhindered and happy through their autumn years.
    I am so sorry that you have become a victim of violence and have chosen to use lethal weapons as a response. As i have argued, it is in my view, short-sighted, counter productive and only serves in the long run to hugely worsen a bad situation of a violent and dangerous society where fear carries more weight than respect.

    Remember, if you carry a gun, people don’t respect you, they fear the gun.

    Interestingly most of the comments opposing my views have been themselves harsh, personally abusive, violent in nature and empty of hard evidence supporting their cause. Emotional and knee-jerk reactions to any external view or opinion.

    Other examples of this response can be seen here:

    I will wish you well, along with the other commentators to this blog. I won’t comment further here as i doubt it would be welcomed – one final thought: to be truly free, first free your mind.

    • I, of course, would never visit your house. Not because I could not be armed, but because of your total lack of respect for my worth as a human being.

      I have no desire to engage you in dialog as I agree with you that it would in no way be productive. I find your comments here inappropriate and harmful, so I sincerely thank you very much for your willingness to stop commenting on my blog.

      • I would like to point out that while I do not know the capabilities of your blog provider, a comment moderation tool like Disqus or IntenseDebate will allow you ban people by name and/or IP address.

        • Oh she knows Erin… If nothing else she gets to text me with the words, “Sic ’em!”. At which point I shove them into the black hole of oblivion…

          How far will the be into oblivion? Far enough they would never see the blog again…

          *IP filtering has a few of it’s own problems, especially if you come up against skilled trolls. I do not think this is the case. Though. Thanks for the heads up.

          • Erin, I do know. I hate to silence anyone. One of things that bugs me to no end is that the anti people do not post comments. On the very rare occasion I post or try to post on everybody’s favorite gal pal, Joan’s blog, she doesn’t post my response. It is so easy to believe her crap when she refuses to post an opposing view. This person is full of bull, but I think he should be heard. I would prefer he not come here and talk about my attack as he has no clue, but unless he is violent or distructive, I will let him post.

            But, yes, Barron has my back and made it clear, he would solve the issue:)

      • I was kinda sad about it… I wanted him to reply to me, but he didn’t… I guess he didn’t have anything to say to my comment. Oh well, it is fact, and maybe you could use it in the future to help with people that do not understand where the real problem is. I posted it not far above his last response. Hope all is well with you. I know personally it only takes one idiot to make you mad, regardless of all the great comments you receive.

    • Dearest Troll,
      I have followed your comments with great anger. Moreover, I have fought hard not to respond to your ridiculous, albeit not surprising, English anti-gun rhetoric, but I knew it would only add fuel to the flames. However, I am curious to know if while you were trolling someones blog, if you happened to pay attention to the UK news about the two police deaths. So, thankfully for “A Girl” she wasn’t visiting your house. We wouldn’t want her to be shot there and have unarmed police officers respond only to be shot too. Peace through superior firepower.

    • “when you travel the road to my home you will not carry a gun, a knife, or even a sharpened stick.”

      Is that a threat? That sounds like a threat to me. That sounds like a kidnapper telling me to come to the dropoff point alone and unarmed, or he’ll kill whoever I’m supposed to be paying ransom money for. That sounds like a mysterious voice on the other end of the phone telling me to come to an unfamiliar meeting location alone and unarmed so that I can’t put up a fight when he quietly shows up behind me and slits my throat.

      If you talked to me like that, I wouldn’t go anywhere near your house. You obviously have unpleasant things in store and want to ensure I can’t do anything to defend myself.

    • Keith, I realize that you may never read this note, and if you do, I myself will never know it. I only just came across this blog, and felt I should respond to you. I am not, and never have been, any sort of policeman. I have had a somewhat similar occupation and some things are similar enough that I will tell you I have had a sheriff’s deputy stand on my front porch and apologize to me. (Yes, I live in Texas.)
      What he was apologizing to me for was putting my name into the law enforcement computer system because, while he had known my wife since kindergarten, she and I had met, married, and raised a family before he had ever met me. This was shortly after we returned home, and he had never met me until I after left the Army. Because we had sons about the same age, and they were beginning to run around together, he was curious about me. The funniest thing about the entire visit was his comment, “Did you know that you come up as a former Federal agent?” My reply was, “Well, yes, I do. I was a courier, I just carried things from place to place, and yes, I had a concealed weapons permit.”
      All that aside, I never had to use my ‘official’ weapon for anything other than qualification. On the other hand, I have looked at seven men through privately-owned gun sights. Five of those went to jail; one for an outstanding warrant for two rapes and an attempted murder. One of those for being a felon in possession of a firearm. The others for various drug charges. Four of those encounters were prior to my possession of my concealed weapon license.
      One incident involved a young man who thought he would break into my (rented) house by removing a key from the realtor’s lock-box clamped to my door knob. (The owner was trying to sell the place, while I had a rental contract.) I was watching him through the window. This was at about three in the morning, on a bitterly cold night. Against the terms of our agreement, I had my dog inside because it was so cold out. At the time the only handgun I had was a black-powder replica Colt revolver. Think the movie, “The Outlaw Josie Wales,” and you will have the idea. My wife had an H&R .22 revolver. And yes, both were loaded.
      When I opened the door, I believe the young man had believed no one to be home. He stuttered for a minute. I do not normally use language like I did then, but I do believe he got the idea. I basically told him if I ever saw him anywhere near my house, I would “blow his head off!” I then slammed the door. He stood a moment longer, then turned and walked across the snowy front yard with a rather peculiar gait. The reason next morning was quite obvious, bad guys 0 – underwear 1. But he was alive, and not in jail. I never saw him again, and my class was finished about a month later.
      The last was a panhandler whom I told to leave, we had nothing for him while we were eating in the car at a park. About three minutes, he returned with about a 4-foot bit of pipe, swinging it back and forth. I simply opened my passenger side door, stood up with a .357 in my hand, and asked across the car if we “…really need to discuss this?” The weapon was visible, but never was pointed near him. He threw the pipe far to the side and ran away. I made my meeting on time, and kept a small souvenir. About 4 foot long and ¾ inch in diameter. Yes, I should have held him for the police. I didn’t have the time or the inclination.
      None of the seven are dead; I did have to fire a grand total of two rounds, to hold or get their attention. None of them were injured; the ones who went to jail, stayed there. I have had weapons present on several other occasions, without having to need the use of them. The incidents were otherwise resolved peaceably. The mere presence of a firearm does not mean they will have to be used, only that the option is there. Do you understand?

    • I don’t think you are doing anything wrong. I think it’s the first real troll I have seen here. I get a few rude comments every great while, but they have always been from other gunnies. I think your doing fine!

    • Erin,

      If it makes you feel better, I’ll come troll you. How about this, “Guns r bad becuz ur a big meanie who is compensating!”

      Feel better? I can cut & paste it over, if you want. . .

    • Don’t worry Erin. It’s a combination of “luck” and content, usually more heavy on the luck.

      I got a troll that was kind of epic in an email. I dropped into the gun blogger conspiracy and forwarded it to a couple conspirators. The laughs were endless. Linoge was miffed, much like you are because he had been at it for a long time and never got a troll like that. Instead all he got was an internet stalker from the anti-rights folks.

      I had to look at this guy and laugh because he obviously was a troll. I was a bit blunt in my response to him, probably why he felt I was calling him names, because I got an email from A Girl and literally my first response was, “I feel dumber for having read those comments”. Then it sank it a bit more, “wait!? you came into my friends house, crapped in her living room, then claimed it was the bathroom and expected us to all believe it?” Yeah… that’s why I was blunt with the facts, at which point he also proved he couldn’t read.

      What he also didn’t realize is II restrain myself from insults even though I’m actually quite good at them. When I go on a tirade and use insults, it’s kind of obvious because I all the sudden sound like I’m a sailor on leave.

  4. Saw your link on FB. As a wife and mother of two, I have multiple weapons in the house. My children (at ages 3 and 4) are learning how to disassemble and clean them as well as what why we have them in the house. We live on a military installation…probably even safer than your neighborhood…but I would never go without. Protection of my family is paramount. No one can do it better than I can.

    • Thought private weapon carry on a military reservation was/is verboten. Kept in quarters with proper security I don’t know. I do know that mine had to be kept in the Company armoury and checked out through the First Sergeant or CQ.

  5. To be fair to “keith”, he is one of the rare anti-gun extremists who is willing to tell the truth and say that he would ban civilian gun ownership. Bloomberg, Brady & Co would love to ban guns in America, but would never ever admit it. How can they? They have a minority view that gets less and less public support. So, they yap about loopholes and magazine capacity and “weapons suitable only for the battlefield”. “Ban? We never said anything about a ban!” “keith’s” candor lets us understand exactly what the anti-gun extremists think about our rights, and why we have to be vigilant.

  6. Thanks for this difficult, inspiring, sad, truthful blog. I’ve already started teaching my daughters to shoot, to trust they’re instincts about danger, and I hope be as courageous as you in protecting loved ones.
    I especially like your comment that gun-haters give us nothing but fear & dependence. My family prefers strength and a mindful defense, to hopefully stop a scarring attack like yours from ever happening to any of us. I encourage any woman reading this to use her right to arms as a path to a better life.

  7. I believe everyone has a right to defend them selves however they can and there is nothing wrong with carrying a gun I have lived around them all my life

    • Carrying a weapon carries with it the responsibility to be proficient with it and be knowledgeable of the laws which cover its use and be careful to obey these laws.

  8. So, the unarmed police will kindly ask the gun holder to leave their weapon in THEIR care and really, really expect them to comply, knowing nothing about the gun holder or his intent? And you think WE are the crazy ones? Please at least tell me that your police force is well paid after being asked by your country to risk their lives so foolishly. Also, do your armed countrymen wear some kind of outward sign identifying themselves as gun holders? If not, how do the gentle hobbies know who to approach to request that they surrender their gun into their keeping? In addition, how does anyone on your street roast marshmallows without a sharp stick? If you can’t even enjoy the taste of burnt marshmallow on a stick, it’s no wonder you have lost your mind. My condolences.

    • ive been reading for an hour or more now. 1st, i dont care about being grammarikly correct. dont have the time.
      2nd and most important, as i was reading page one i started to think A girl was crazy rambling. maybe im slow but i started to get it and felt warm and fuzzy.
      i love to shoot and hunt. while reading i got that feeling of being at the range, not knowing the other shooters but having a connection. i joined a forum of shooters and when we get together its like a family reunion.
      i could not believe the first comment i read, annonomus.
      they just dont get it and never will. well hopefully they will.

      there is a great feeling i get at the range. some may not aprove but i always check with the parents. i own a machine gun that will accept 22 cal ammo. it is so much fun to turn a kid on to shooting full auto. allways big smiles all around.

      there was a guy with kids who barked at me because he felt i was not in full control of my weapon. it was going between a couple of people so he may have been justified, althoug i dont think so and i barked back.
      after we settled down, shot some more, i offered to let him shoot it. he declined and i saw his sons face, look up at him with those puppy dog eyes saying why? i asked if his son could, he saw big eyes, and he let him.
      leaving the range he thanked me and all his machine gun shooting kids did too.

      guns are not the problem. enough said.

      im thinking this guy saying you would not bring any weapons to his street, well it sounds like he is in prison to me. HAHA.

      keep on shootin. practice makes perfect.
      thanks for writing what i read to get the fuzzys, ill shoot with you.


      • No, actually, he is in a nonexistent utopia that is only real in his mind.
        Probably lives in a padded cell somewhere north of London, and had to leave because the attendant informed him that his “Social Time” on the computer was up.
        Really, is there anywhere on earth like he described? If so, I’d like to visit. I’ve never seen a unicorn.

    • Kieth appears to me to be living in a construct of his mind. He is probably incarcerated somewhere in an institution for the criminally insane.

  9. I can understand why A-Girl felt the need to own a gun, and it’s good to see she was responsible enough to also take lessons and learn how to use it. However, I do think some people here need to realize it takes guts to be a complete pacifist and decide not resort to violence, even if it costs you everything; the natural reaction of a person is to want to defend themselves. A person is not ‘crazy’ for being a pacifist, they just have a different belief / moral compass than you. Yeah, maybe this anti-gun dude is a troll but perhaps he genuinely believes what he’s saying and in that case let him be, how are his views effecting you at all?! At any rate the best way to deal with a troll is to ignore them.

    • “the natural reaction of a person is to want to defend themselves”
      By your own words, being an uncompromising pacifist is not normal. He made it clear that for whatever reason, he will not protect himself from harm, but will expect others to do it.
      That is morally reprehensible, to expect other people to do things that he will not soil his hands with, so that he can feel superior to those of us who are willing to take responsibility for our own safety.
      Even worse, not only is he unwilling to see to his own safety, he would like to take from us the ability to see to ours.

  10. Remember when you were a teenager, and you had growing pains? Your situation in the store is very similar. You had to experience a difficult, a moment of pain, in order for you to grow.

    This is one reason why bad things happen to good people. Growth hurts, and we all continue to grow. Spiritually, physically, and emotionally.

    Good for you that you didn’t let the bad guys win. You grew up in the right direction. Confident and secure in your knowledge that you can protect your family from the world’s two-legged vermin.

  11. A Girl, my daughter is you before your incident. I have no hope that she will read your Blog but I would be remiss if I didn’t offer her the chance. I will also suggest that her husband read it too. He may (?) have more sense and encourage her to read, but I doubt it. They are city mice and pretty comfortable, depending on government for protection. Both are dyed in the wool Democrats too. Don’t understand it.

    • John, I am always humbled when someone thinks something I wrote might be helpful to a loved one. I know how frustrating it can be to try to encourage others to take their safety more serious.

      I will be sending good thoughts your way!

  12. Folks, its a losing battle trying to talk to people like Keith. They will never, ever understand until it happens to them or a loved one, and sometimes not even then. You know guns kill people, not felons, insane people, etc, with guns kill people, but its the actual guns, the tools, themselves, that actually take on a life of their own and just start shooting people. That makes sense, doesn’t it? Its a lost cause talking to an anti gun liberal. I don’t even try anymore. Its a waste of time. Its a lost cause. Keith can believe or think what he wants to. America is somewhat free still, I guess. Its sad….Just saying…..

  13. Law abiding citizens carry for protection of their families and themselves. God forbid they have to use their weapon. When they do, its to STOP THE THREAT, never to KILL. What happens after that is may be unfortunate, but hopefully the threat is stopped, which is the main objective.

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